Comments on: 3D on the Web: It’s Go Time http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/ Words Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:28:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Antoine http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3435 Antoine Tue, 05 May 2009 20:54:49 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3435 In my opinion (http://bitsofmymind.com/permalink/2009/5/5/a-restful-3d-web#content) it would be wrongful to use JavaScript to render 3D. As much as everyone likes the language, its purpose is to add interactivity, not to render representations. If you think about it, X3D is to 3D what HTML, CSS and SVG are to 2D; X3D is a natural progression and it should not be treated differently than HTML, would you build an API to render text and images on the Web? Obviously not, the browser interpreting the HTML does that for you and makes the building of web pages a whole lot easier (provided you know HTML). The declarativity of those languages is the reason the the Web is so simple and yet so useful. When Dr. Fielding (creator of HTTP) formulated the REST architecture (onto which the Web works), it was a tentative to prevent the Web from turning into just another inconsistent pile of APIs, libraries and programs, like the software world generally is; the web we use today is testament to this sucess. In my opinion (http://bitsofmymind.com/permalink/2009/5/5/a-restful-3d-web#content) it would be wrongful to use JavaScript to render 3D. As much as everyone likes the language, its purpose is to add interactivity, not to render representations. If you think about it, X3D is to 3D what HTML, CSS and SVG are to 2D; X3D is a natural progression and it should not be treated differently than HTML, would you build an API to render text and images on the Web? Obviously not, the browser interpreting the HTML does that for you and makes the building of web pages a whole lot easier (provided you know HTML).

The declarativity of those languages is the reason the the Web is so simple and yet so useful. When Dr. Fielding (creator of HTTP) formulated the REST architecture (onto which the Web works), it was a tentative to prevent the Web from turning into just another inconsistent pile of APIs, libraries and programs, like the software world generally is; the web we use today is testament to this sucess.

]]> By: Trevor F. Smith http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3343 Trevor F. Smith Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:43:11 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3343 doobs wrote "But X3D gives you so much more with sound and text fonts and …" That kind of spec bloat is exactly why it isn't appropriate for basic browser capabilities. It is better to provide the fundamental rendering capabilities that enable people to build libraries on top of it, especially since there are a lot of us who want to build 3D apps without the baggage of VRML/X3D. doobs wrote “But X3D gives you so much more with sound and text fonts and …”

That kind of spec bloat is exactly why it isn’t appropriate for basic browser capabilities. It is better to provide the fundamental rendering capabilities that enable people to build libraries on top of it, especially since there are a lot of us who want to build 3D apps without the baggage of VRML/X3D.

]]> By: doobs http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3294 doobs Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:12:02 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3294 I don't understand why you would expose the low level rendering API of OpenGL when the first thing people are going to want to do is draw Boxes and Cones and Spheres and then you need to add in things like the GLUT (?) extensions. X3D abstracts away from those low level bindings, but sure you can still draw TriangleStripSets and the like if you need to. But X3D gives you so much more with sound and text fonts and ... Why didn't you just pick up something like OpenVRML or FreeWRL and integrate those directly into your web browser? Oh, and DirectX was the OpenGL/Khronos competitor no? Presumably Collada builds on top of DirectX or OpenGL. A javascript library to render X3D using the mozilla exposed OpenGL bindings ? That would be one hell of a download! If you've ever tried to download Xj3D as a java applet, that can take 5 minutes already, and thats byte compiled. I don’t understand why you would expose the low level rendering API of OpenGL when the first thing people are going to want to do is draw Boxes and Cones and Spheres and then you need to add in things like the GLUT (?) extensions.
X3D abstracts away from those low level bindings, but sure you can still draw TriangleStripSets and the like if you need to.
But X3D gives you so much more with sound and text fonts and …

Why didn’t you just pick up something like OpenVRML or FreeWRL and integrate those directly into your web browser?

Oh, and DirectX was the OpenGL/Khronos competitor no? Presumably Collada builds on top of DirectX or OpenGL.

A javascript library to render X3D using the mozilla exposed OpenGL bindings ? That would be one hell of a download!

If you’ve ever tried to download Xj3D as a java applet, that can take 5 minutes already, and thats byte compiled.

]]> By: modeless http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3272 modeless Fri, 27 Mar 2009 22:52:22 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3272 @joshua I think you have the wrong idea about this; there's no wheel-reinventing here. X3D is a model file format and scene graph, while OpenGL is a rendering API. OpenGL isn't a competitor to X3D at all, it's a *way of implementing* X3D. COLLADA would be Khronos's X3D competitor, but nobody is suggesting to build COLLADA support into browsers (or X3D support for that matter). Once OpenGL is built into browsers via the Canvas element someone can write a Javascript X3D library and you'll have X3D support with no plugin. Won't that be cool? @joshua I think you have the wrong idea about this; there’s no wheel-reinventing here. X3D is a model file format and scene graph, while OpenGL is a rendering API. OpenGL isn’t a competitor to X3D at all, it’s a *way of implementing* X3D. COLLADA would be Khronos’s X3D competitor, but nobody is suggesting to build COLLADA support into browsers (or X3D support for that matter).

Once OpenGL is built into browsers via the Canvas element someone can write a Javascript X3D library and you’ll have X3D support with no plugin. Won’t that be cool?

]]> By: fossnews.pl » Blog Archive » Nadchodzi era Web 3D http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3270 fossnews.pl » Blog Archive » Nadchodzi era Web 3D Fri, 27 Mar 2009 17:00:09 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3270 [...] Podjęcie tematu przez ww. organizacje wydaje się następstwem działań podjętych samodzielnie przez Vladimira Vukićevića - twórcy Canvas:3D, którego zdanie o tej inicjatywie znajdziemy na jego blogu. [...] [...] Podjęcie tematu przez ww. organizacje wydaje się następstwem działań podjętych samodzielnie przez Vladimira Vukićevića – twórcy Canvas:3D, którego zdanie o tej inicjatywie znajdziemy na jego blogu. [...]

]]> By: Mozilla and Khronos to bring standards-based 3D to the web | WinSoftNews - Computers-Technology-Software http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3268 Mozilla and Khronos to bring standards-based 3D to the web | WinSoftNews - Computers-Technology-Software Fri, 27 Mar 2009 06:01:46 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3268 [...] Vladimir Vukićević released an experimental Firefox plugin last year that brought support for a subset of OpenGL to [...] [...] Vladimir Vukićević released an experimental Firefox plugin last year that brought support for a subset of OpenGL to [...]

]]> By: rates http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3267 rates Fri, 27 Mar 2009 02:12:29 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3267 How to deal with the IE6 majority? How to deal with the IE6 majority?

]]> By: Joshua Burkholder http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3264 Joshua Burkholder Thu, 26 Mar 2009 22:42:40 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3264 @vlad The standard for 3D on the web is X3D - an XML based format. X3D supports animation, interactivity, scripting, extensibility, and a whole lot more, so it does everything you want it to do. Also, it's been standardized, the specification and schema are published freely online, it has an active working group, and it is in version 3.2 (at the time I'm writing this), so it's been well vetted. X3D currently requires a browser plugin (or standalone player); however, I'm sure that they would love to get native browser support. Also, there are already some open source implementations of X3D. Email me if you want more information (there is a bunch of online documentation and videos describing the spec). No Need To Recreate The Wheel, Joshua Burkholder @vlad

The standard for 3D on the web is X3D – an XML based format. X3D supports animation, interactivity, scripting, extensibility, and a whole lot more, so it does everything you want it to do. Also, it’s been standardized, the specification and schema are published freely online, it has an active working group, and it is in version 3.2 (at the time I’m writing this), so it’s been well vetted. X3D currently requires a browser plugin (or standalone player); however, I’m sure that they would love to get native browser support. Also, there are already some open source implementations of X3D.

Email me if you want more information (there is a bunch of online documentation and videos describing the spec).

No Need To Recreate The Wheel,
Joshua Burkholder

]]> By: Mozilla and Khronos Hook Up in 3D Graphics Initiative | google android os blog http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3261 Mozilla and Khronos Hook Up in 3D Graphics Initiative | google android os blog Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:21:41 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3261 [...] widely about how open source, 3D worlds, and 3D gaming are converging, including here, and here. In a blog post, Mozilla’s Graphics Team Lead, Vladimir Vukicevic [...] [...] widely about how open source, 3D worlds, and 3D gaming are converging, including here, and here. In a blog post, Mozilla’s Graphics Team Lead, Vladimir Vukicevic [...]

]]> By: Remedy » Blog Archive » 3D Standard on the Web? http://blog.vlad1.com/2009/03/24/3d-on-the-web-its-go-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3258 Remedy » Blog Archive » 3D Standard on the Web? Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:23:45 +0000 http://blog.vlad1.com/?p=116#comment-3258 [...] Link [...] [...] Link [...]

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